A discussion with Venkat Vaidhyanathan, Architect at Razorpay and Jayesh Ahire, Founding Engineer at Traceable AI and Product Manager for Hypertrace, on an open-source project, Hypertrace, and how it helps designers, builders, and testers of modern APIs gain visibility across their internal and third-party services.


Dana Gardner: Hi, this is Dana Gardner, Principal Analyst at Interarbor Solutions, and you’re listening to BriefingsDirect.

The speed and complexity of microservices-intense applications often leave their developers in the dark. They too often struggle to track and visualize the actual underlying architecture of these distributed services.

The designers, builders, and testers of modern API-driven apps, therefore, need an ongoing and instant visibility capability into the rapidly changing data flows, integration points, and assemblages of internal and third-party services.

Thankfully, an open-source project to advance the sophisticated distributed tracing and observability platform called Hypertrace is helping.

Stay with us now as we hear about the evolution and capabilities of Hypertrace and how an early adopter in the online payment suite business, Razorpay, has gained new insights and deeper understanding of their services components.

To learn how Hypertrace discovers, monitors, visualizes, and optimizes increasingly complex services architectures, please welcome Venkat Vaidhyanathan, Architect at Razorpay in Bangalore, India. Welcome, Venkat.

Venkat Vaidhyanathan: Thank you, Dana, for the warm welcome.

Gardner: We’re also here with Jayesh Ahire, Founding Engineer at Traceable AI and Product Manager for Hypertrace. Welcome, Jayesh.

Jayesh Ahire: Thanks, Dana. Glad to be here.

Gardner: Venkat, what does Razorpay do and why is tracing and understanding your services architecture so important?

Built by developers, for developers

Venkat: Razorpay’s mission is to enable frictionless banking and payment experiences by powering the entire financial infrastructure for businesses of all shapes and sizes. It’s a full-stack financial solution that enables thousands of small- to medium-sized enterprises (SMEs) and enterprises to accept, process, and disburse payments at scale.

Today, we process billions of dollars of payments from millions of businesses across India. As a leading payments provider, we have been the first to bring to market most of the major online innovations in payments for the last five years.

For the last two years, we have successfully curated neo banking and lending services. We have seen outstanding growth in the last five years and attracted close to $300 million-plus in funding from investors such as Sequoia, Tiger Global, Rebate, Matrix Partners, and others.

One of the fundamental principles about designing Razorpay has been to build a largely API-driven ecosystem. We are a developer-first company. Our general principle of building is, “It is built by developers for developers,” which means that every single product we build is always going to be API-driven first. In that regard, we must ensure that our APIs are resilient. That they perform to the best and most optimum capacity is of extreme importance to us.

Gardner: What is it about being an API-driven organization that makes tracing and observability such an important undertaking?

Venkat: We are an extremely Agile organization. As a startup, we have an obsession around our customers. Focus on building quality products is paramount to creating the best user experience (UX).

Our customers have amazing stories around our projects, products, and ecosystem. We have worked through extreme times (for example, demonetization, and the Yes Bank outage), and that has helped our customers build a lot of trust in what we do — and what we can do.

We have quickly taken up the challenge and turned the tables for most of our customers to build a lot of trust in the kinds of things we do.

After all, we are dealing with one of the most sensitive aspects of human lives, which is their money. So, in this regard, the resiliency, security, and all the useability parameters are extremely important for our success.

Gardner: Jayesh, why is Razorpay a good example of what businesses are facing when it comes to APIs? And what requirements for such users are you attempting to satisfy with your distributed tracing and observability platform?

Observability offers scale, insight, resilience

Ahire: Going back to the days when it all started, people began building applications using monoliths. And it was easier then to begin with monolithic applications to get the business moving.

But in recent times, that is not the only important thing for businesses. As we heard, Venkat needs scale and resiliency in the platform while building with APIs. Most modern organizations use microservices, which complicates these modern architectures. They become hard to manage, especially at large-scale organizations where you can have 100 to 300 microservices, with thousands of APIs communicating between those microservices.

It’s just hard now for businesses to have visibility and observability to determine if they have any issues and to see if the APIs are performing as they are expected.

I use a list of four brief questions that every organization needs to answer at some point. Are their APIs:

  • Providing the functionality they are supposed to deliver?
  • Performing in the way they are supposed to?
  • Secure for their business users?
  • Understood across all their APIs and microservices uses?

They must understand if the APIs and microservices are performing up to the actual expectations and required functionality. They need something that can provide the answers to these questions, at the very least.

Observability helps answer these essential questions without having to open the black box and go to each service and every API. Instead, the instrumentation data provides those insights. You can ask questions of your system and it will give you the answers. You can ask, for example, how your system is performing — and it will give you some answers. Such observability helps large-scale organizations keep up with the scale and with the increasing number of users. And that keeps the systems resilient.

Gardner: Venkat, what are your business imperatives for using Hypertrace? Is it for UX? What is the business case for gaining more observability in your services development?

Metrics, logs, and traces limit trouble

Venkat: There are three fundamental legs to what we define as modern observability. One part is with respect to metrics, the next part has to do with the logs, and the third part is in respect to the traces.

Up until recently, we had application performance monitoring (APM) systems that monitored some of these things, with a single place to gather some metrics and insights. However, as microservices grew wider in use, APMs are no longer necessarily the right way to do these things. For such metrics, a lot of work is already going on in the open-source ecosystem with respect to Prometheus and others. I wrote a blog about our journey into scaling our metrics platform to trillions of data points.

Once you can get logs — whether it is from open-source ELK Stack [Elasticsearch, Logstash, and Kibana], or whether it is from a lot of platform as a service (PaaS) and software as a service (SaaS) log providers — fundamentally the issue comes down to traces.

Now, traces can be visualized in a very primitive way, such as for instrumenting a particular piece of code to understand its behavior. It could be for a timing function, for example.

However, as microservices evolve, you’re talking about a lot more problems, such as how much time would a network call take? How much time would the database call take? Was my DNS request the biggest impediment? What really happened in the last mile?

And when you’re talking about an entire graph of services, it’s very important to know what particular point in the entire graph breaks down often – or doesn’t break down very often.

Understanding all these things, as Jayesh said, and asking the right questions cannot happen only by using metrics or just logs. They only give different slices of the problems. And it cannot happen only by using tracing, which also only gives a different slice of the problem.

In an ideal, nirvana world, you need to combine all these things and create a single place that can correlate these various things and allow a deep dive with respect to a specific component, module, function, system, query, or whatever. Being able to identify root causes and the mean time to detect (MTTD), these are some of the most paramount things that we probably need to worry about.

In complex, large-scale systems, things go wrong. Why things went wrong is one part, when did things go wrong is another part, and being able to arrive and fix things – the MTTD and the mean time to recovery (MTTR) — those largely define the success of any business.

We are just one of the many financial ecosystem providers. There are tons of providers in the world. So, the customer has many options to switch from one provider to another. For any business, how they react to these performance issues is the most important.

Observability tools like Hypertrace puts us in control, rather than just leaving it for hypothesis.

Gardner: Jayesh, how does Hypertrace improve on such key performance controls as MTTD and MTTR? How is Hypertrace being used to cut down on that all important time to remediation that makes the user experience more competitive?

Tracing eases uncovering the unknown

Ahire: As Venkat pointed out, in these modern systems, there are too many unknown unknowns. Finding out what caused any problem at any point in time is hard.

At Hypertrace, in trying to help businesses, we present entity-focused, API-first views. Hypertrace provides a very detailed service dashboard, an overview, an out-of-the-box service overview. Such a backend API overview helps find what different services are talking to each other, how they are talking to each other, the interactions between the different services, and then what different APIs are talking to the services. It provides a list of APIs.

Hypertrace provides a single pane view into the services and API trace data. The insights gained from the trace data makes it easier to find which API or service has some issue. That’s where the entity-first API view makes the most sense. The API dashboard helps people get to the issue very easily and helps reduce the MTTD and MTTR.

Venkat: Just to add to what Jayesh mentioned, in our world our ecosystem is internally a Kubernetes ecosystem. And Kubernetes is extremely dynamic in nature. You’re not anymore dealing with single, private IDs or public IDs, or any of those things. Services can come up. Parts can come up. Deployments can come up, go down.

So, service discoverability becomes a problem, which means that tying back a particular behavior to these services, which are themselves a collection of services, and to the underlying infrastructure — whether you’re talking about queues or network calls — you’re talking about any number of interconnected infrastructure components as well. That becomes extremely challenging.

The second aspect is implicitly most of our ecosystems run on preemptive workloads, or smart workloads. So, nodes can come up, nodes can go down. How do you put these things together? While we can identify a particular service as problematic, I want to find out if it is the service that is problematic or the underlying cloud provider. And within the cloud provider, is it the network or the actual hardware or operating system (OS)? If it is OS, which part precisely? Is it just a particular part that is problematic, or is the entire hardware problematic? That’s one view.

The other view is that cardinality becomes an extremely important issue. Metrics alone cannot solve that problem. Logs alone cannot solve that problem. A very simple request, for example, a payment-create-request in our world, carries at least 30 to 35 different cardinality dimensions (e.g.: the merchant identity, gateway, terminal, network, and whether the payment is domestic vs international, etc.).

A variety of these parameters comes into play. You need to know if it’s an issue overall, is it at a particular merchant, and at what dimension? So, you need to narrow down the problem in a tight production scenario.

To manage those aspects, tools like Hypertrace, or any observability tool, for that matter — tracing in general — makes it a lot easier to arrive at the right conclusions.

Gardner: You mentioned there are other options for tracing. How did you at Razorpay come to settle on Hypertrace? What’s the story behind your adoption of Hypertrace after looking at the tracing options landscape?

The why and how of choosing Hypertrace

Venkat: When we began our observability journey, we realized we had to go further into visibility tracing because the APMs were not answering a lot of questions we were asking of the APM tool. The best open-source version was that offered by Jaeger. We evaluated a lot of PaaS/SaaS solutions. We really didn’t want to build an in-house observability stack.

There were a few challenges in all the PaaS offerings including storage, ability to drill down, retention, and cost versus value offered. Additionally, many of the providers were just giving us Jaeger with add-ons. The overall cost-to-benefit ratio suffered because we were growing with both the number of services and users. Any model that charges us on the user level, data storage level, or services level — these become prohibitive over time.

Although maintaining an in-house observability tool is not the most natural business direction for us, we soon realized that maybe it’s best for us to do it in-house. We were doing some research and hit upon this solution called Hypertrace. It looked interesting so we decided to give it a try.

They offered the ability for me to jump into a Slack call. And that’s all I did. I just signed up. In fact, I didn’t even sign up with my company email address. I signed up with my personal email address and I just jumped on to their Slack call.

I started asking the Hypertrace team lots of questions. Started with a Docker-compose, straight out of their GitHub repo. The integration was quite straightforward. We did a set of proof-of-concepts and said, “Okay, this sort of makes sense.” The UX was on par with any commercial SaaS provider. That blew my mind. How can an open-source product build such a fantastic user interface (UI)? I think that was the first thing that hit most of our heads. And I think that was the biggest sell. We said, “Let’s just jump in and see how it evaluates.” And that’s the story.

Gardner: What sort of paybacks or metrics of success have you enjoyed since adopting Hypertrace? As open source, are you injecting your own requirements or desired functions and features into it?

Venkat: First and foremost, we wanted to understand the beast we were dealing with in our APIs, which meant we had to build in the instrumentation and software development kits (SDKs), including OpenCensus, OpenTracing, and OpenTelemetry agents.

The next step was integrating these tools within our services and ecosystem. There are challenges in terms of internally standardizing all our instrumentation, using best practices, and ensuring that applications are adopted. We had to make internal developer adoption easier by building the right toolkits, the right frameworks, and the right SDKs because applications have their own business asks, and you shouldn’t be adding woes to their existing development life cycle. Integration should be simple! So, we formulated a virtual team internally within Razorpay to build the observability stack.

As we built the SDKs and tooling and started instrumenting, we did a lot of adoption exercises within the organization. Now, we have more than 15 critical services and a lot more in the pipeline. Over a period of time, we were able to make tracing a habit rather than just another “nice to have.”

One of the biggest benefits we started seeing from the production monitoring is our internal engineering teams figured out how to run performance tests in pre-production. Some of these wouldn’t have been possible before; being able to pin down the right problem areas.

Now, during the performance testing, our engineers can early-on pinpoint the root cause of the problems. And they’ve gone back to fix their code even before the code goes into production. And believe me that it’s a lot more valuable for us than the code going into production and then facing these problems.

The misfortune about all monitoring tools is typical metrics might not be applicable. Why? Because when things go right, nobody wants to look at monitoring. It’s only when things go wrong that people log into a monitoring tool.

The benefits of Hypertrace come in terms of how many issues you’re able to detect much earlier in the stages of development. That’s probably the biggest benefit we have gotten.

Gardner: Jayesh, what makes Hypertrace unique in the tracing market?

Democratic data for API analytics

Ahire: There are two different ways to analyze, visualize, and use the data to better understand the systems. The first important thing is how we do data collection. Hypertrace provides data collection from any standard instrumentation.

If your application is instrumented with Jaeger, Zipkin, or OpenTelemetry, and you start sending the instrumentation data to Hypertrace, it will be able to analyze it and show you the dashboard. You then will be able to slice and dice the data using our explorer. You can discover a lot of different things.

That democratization of the data collection aspect is one important thing Hypertrace provides. And if you want to use any other tracing platform you can do that with Hypertrace because we support all the standard instrumentation.

Next is how we utilize that data. Most tracing platforms provide a way to slice and dice their data. So that’s just one explorer view where there’s all the data from the instrumentation available and you can find the information you want. Ask the question and then you will get the information. That’s one way to look at it.

Hypertrace provides, in addition to that explorer view, a detailed service graph. With it, you can go to applications, see the service interactions, the latency markings, and learn which services are having errors right away. Out-of-the-box services derived from instrumentation data provide many necessary metrics and visualizations, including latency, error rate, and call rate.

You can see more of the API interactions. You can see comparison data to current data, for example. Whatever your latency was in the last one day to the last hour. It provides you a comparison for that. And it’s pretty helpful by being able to compare between deployments, such as if the performance, latency, or error rate is affected. There are a lot of use cases you can solve with Hypertrace.

With such observability used in early problem detection, you can reduce MTTD and MTTR using these dashboard services. You can achieve early problem detection easily.

Then there’s availability. The expectation is for availability of 99.99 percent. In the case of Razorpay, it’s very critical. Any downtime has a business impact. For most businesses, that’s the case. So, availability is a critical issue.

The Hypertrace dashboards help you to maintain that as well. Currently, we are working on alerting features on deviations — and those deviations are calculated automatically. We calculate baselines from the previous data, and whenever a deviation happens, we give an alert. That obviously helps in reducing MTTD as well as increasing availability generally.

Hypertrace strives to make the UX seamless. As Venkat mentioned, we have a beautiful UI that looks professional and attractive. The UI work we put into our SaaS security solution, Traceable AI, this functionality also goes into Hypertrace, and so helps the community. It helps people such as Venkat at Razorpay to solve the problems in their environment. That’s pretty good.

Gardner: Venkat, for other organizations facing similar complexity and a need to speed remediation, what recommendations do you have? What should other companies be thinking about as they evaluate observability and tracing choices? What do you recommend they do as they get more involved with API resiliency?

Evaluate then invest in your journey

Venkat: A fundamental problem today in the open-source world with tracing is the quality of standards. We have OpenCensus on one side going to OpenTelemetry and OpenTracing going to OpenTelemetry. In trying to keep it all compatible, and because it’s all so nascent, there is not a lot of automation.

For most startups, it is quite daunting to build their own observability stack.

My recommendation is to start with an existing tracing provider and evaluate that against your past solutions. Over time it may become cost prohibitive. At some point, you must start looking inward. That’s the time when systems like Hypertrace become quite useful for an organization.

The truth is it’s not easy to build on an observability stack. So, experiment with a SaaS provider on a lower scale. Then invest in the right tooling, one that gives the liberty to not maintain the stack, such as Hypertrace. Keep the internal tooling separate, experiment, and come back. That’s what I would recommend.

The cost is not just the physical infrastructure cost, or the licensing cost. Cost is also engineering cost of the stack. If the stack goes down, who monitors the monitor? It’s a big question. So, there are trade-offs. There is no right answer, but it’s a journey.

After our experience with Hypertrace, I have connected with a couple of my friends in different organizations, and I’ve told them of the benefits. I do not know their results, but I’ve told them some of the benefits that we have leveraged using Hypertrace.

Gardner: And just to follow up on your advice for others, Venkat, what is it about open source that helps with those trade-offs?

Venkat: One advantage we have with open-source is there is no vendor lock-in. That’s one major advantage. One of our critical services is in PHP. And hence, we needed to only use OpenCensus for instrumenting it.

But there were a lot of performance and resilience issues with this codebase. Today, the original OpenCensus PHP implementation points to Razorpay’s fork.

And we are working with the Hypertrace community, too, to build some features, whether it is in tool design, Blue Coat, knowledge sharing, and bug-fixing. For us it’s been an interesting and exciting journey.

Ahire: Yes, that has been the mutual experience from our end as well. We learned a lot of things. We had made assumptions in the beginning about what users might expect or want.

But Razorpay worked with us. On some things they said, “Okay, this is not going to work. You have to change this part.” And we modified some things, we added a few features, and we removed a few things. That’s how it came to where it is today. The whole collaboration aspect has been very rewarding.

Venkat: Even though we have a handful of critical services, the data that are instrumented from them, it was over two terabytes a day. And while that is a good problem to have, we have other interesting scaling challenges we need to deal with.

So how do you optimize these things at scale? In the SaaS form, we could have just gone and said, “Hey, this sort of doesn’t work.” We stick with them for a few months then we go ahead with another SaaS provider and say, “Are you going to solve this problem or not?”

The flexibility we get with open source is to say, “Okay, here’s the problem. How do we fix it?” Because, of course, they’re not under our control, right? I think that’s super powerful.

Ahire: Here we all learn together.

Gardner: Yes, it certainly sounds like a partnership relationship. Jayesh, tell us a little bit about the roadmap for Hypertrace, and particularly for the smaller organizations who might prefer a SaaS model, what do you have in store for them?

Ahire: We are currently working on alerting. We’ll soon release dynamic anomaly-based alerting.

We are also working on metric ingestion and integrations throughout the Hypertrace platform. An important aspect of tracing and observability is being able to correlate the data. To propagate context throughout the system is very important. That’s what we will be doing with our metric integration. You will be able to send application metrics, and you will be able to correlate back to base data and log data.

And talking of SaaS, when it comes to smaller organizations with maybe 10, 20, or 30 developers and a not very well-defined DevOps team, it can be hard to deploy and manage this kind of platform.

So, for those users, we are working toward a SaaS model so smaller companies will be able to use the Hypertrace stack functionality.

Gardner: Where can organizations go to learn more about Hypertrace and start to use some of these features and functions?

Ahire: You can head on to hypertrace.org, our website, and find the details of our use cases. There’s a Slack channel link, GitHub, and everything is available there. Those are good places to start.

Venkat: Just try it first and just go to GitHub and within a few minutes you should have the entire stack up and running. I mean, that’s as simple as simplicity can get.

For further details, just go to the Slack channel and start communicating. Their team is super-duper responsive and super-duper helpful. In fact, we have never had to talk to them saying, “Hey, what’s this?” because we sort of realized that they come back with a patch much faster than you can imagine.

Gardner: I’m afraid we’ll have to leave it there. You’ve been listening to a sponsored BriefingsDirect discussion on how the speed and complexity of microservices-laden applications can often leave developers in the dark as to what’s going on with their underlying dynamic service architectures.

And we’ve learned how a sophisticated, distributed tracing and observability platform called Hypertrace discovers, monitors, visualizes, and optimizes services for an innovative online payments business, Razorpay.

So, a big thank you to our guests, Venkat Vaidhyanathan, Architect at Razorpay in Bangalore, India. Thank you so much, Venkat.

Venkat: Thank you, Dana, for the opportunity, and thank you, Jayesh, and the Hypertrace team for helping us to build and make our systems far more robust.

Gardner: We’ve also been here with Jayesh Ahire, Founding Engineer at Traceable AI and Product Manager for Hypertrace. Thank you, Jayesh.

Ahire: Thanks, Dana. It was great talking to you and sharing our story.

Gardner: And a big thank you as well for our audience for joining this BriefingsDirect API resiliency discussion. I’m Dana Gardner, Principal Analyst at Interarbor Solutions, your host throughout this series of Traceable AI-sponsored BriefingsDirect interviews.

Thanks again for listening. Please pass this along to your business community and do come back for our next chapter.